Some theologians think that God is entirely outside time; some that God has to be part of the unfolding of events as determined by human choices and so must be inside time. I think there is a case for a Trinitarian definition: God the Father is outside time, God the Son was (for a time) entirely inside time, God the Holy Spirit somehow mediates the presence of God into time. Maybe. More importantly, Jesus in his Resurrection breaks out of time and brings the future into the present (which is now our past!)
One of the consequences of God's eternality is to do with prayer. C.S. Lewis seemed to 'get' this more than anyone else I read when I studied it. God, being outside time, can hear our prayers whenever we make them, does not have to deal with them in a period of time, and can actually answer them before we pray them! C.S. Lewis said that the answers to our prayers have in some cases been built into the fabric of the universe. Cosmic!
I gave a simpler example of pre-answered prayer when I had to write about it. Imagine someone on a plane waiting for take-off - some Christian who is frightened of flying. They pray that God will keep them safe on this flight. Thankfully, God answered that prayer a few hours previously when he whispered in the ear of a maintenance engineer that there was a problem with one of the engines. Causality isn't as limited as we often think.
Was listening to Justin on Unbelievable? today, who related a story of how a Christian charity on some far-flung island desperately needed some kind of supplies - and they needed them the next day. So they prayed about it. And sure enough, the parcel appeared the next day. But according to the postmark, it had been posted 3 months ago. So what was going on there? It seems the prayer had been answered 3 months previously. It's not theoretical, it happens.
And now the Bible. Warning - after all that, you may just want to read just the first of these three verses and stop there!
Romans 8 (NIV)
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Here's a thought about time and God knowing what's coming and yet respecting free will etc etc... I've listened to certain songs and pieces of music over and over, I know exactly what's coming each time, but there's something about experiencing which is different to 'knowing' - so this business about God 'knowing' what's coming is perhaps a bit beside the point, maybe he 'knows' what's coming but the experience of it, the actual reality of it as opposed to the 'knowing' of it, is what it's all about. Just a thought...
ReplyDeleteHello Parson, The danger of Romans 8 is that it can result in a narrow or hard view of so called Divine election or Hyper-Calvinism. We need to look at Romans 8 in context - I would ask the questions: Who are the elect? What happens to those who are not elect? Does this mean that God consigns people to Hell before they are born? Robert Burns in his 'Holy Willie's Prayer' says a lot about such a doctrine, I would hope that you don't advocate Calvinistic Protestantism at St Peter's!
ReplyDeleteHi Neil. I can agree with some of Calvinism but wouldn't particularly call myself a Calvinist. I'm wary of any theology that has things neatly tied up!
ReplyDeleteThe idea of 'the elect' is a dangerous one because churches can easily get into an "us and them" mindset. Us who believe the right things and are therefore the elect, and them who are outside "the" church and do not. I think that's really unhelpful - and it may not be a coincidence that the church has continued to split over minor doctrinal issues ever since.
The gift of freewill is paramount to my way of thinking so I'm not a very good TULIP seller!
I think there's something fundamental about the way our mind functions that makes us unable to comprehend predestination and God's interaction with the world.
Greetings Parson,Maybe God created humans with Free Will? There are loads of issues here which are beyond the scope of a blog comment - would be good have a chat one day. Maybe there could be a Maghull theological forum! Calvinism and what Calvin said in his Institutes are a bit different. However, one only needs to look at Scotish history to see how "cruel" the doctine could be when used for the purposes of the people in power. I don't buy TULIPs even though I studied theology at Edinburgh!
ReplyDeleteI think freewill is God's great gamble! And one of God's greatest gifts, because it is a prerequisite for love.
ReplyDeleteYes, Calvin probably wasn't a good Calvinist according to his followers today! Had the odd lecture on him at college, but never went into great detail. I'm probably more familiar with Calvin & Hobbes.
Our new curate might be up for organising a theological forum. Or maybe one of our Readers-in-Training ?